Marketers are setting the cultural conversation—with their successes as much as their missteps. But which campaigns are creating healthy tension? When is the right time to walk back a rebrand? Autodesk CMO Dara Treseder breaks down branding and marketing lessons from the most high-profile campaigns of 2025, giving her unvarnished opinion on everything from Sydney Sweeney to Cracker Barrel and more.
This is an abridged transcript of an interview from Rapid Response, hosted by former Fast Company editor-in-chief Robert Safian and recorded live at the 2025 Masters of Scale Summit in San Francisco. From the team behind the Masters of Scale podcast, Rapid Response features candid conversations with today’s top business leaders navigating real-time challenges. Subscribe to Rapid Response wherever you get your podcasts to ensure you never miss an episode.
[Sydney Sweeney’s American Eagle ad] sparked all kinds of controversy and discussion about “jeans” versus “genes.” You and I talked before about what is healthy tension and toxic tension. So, was this healthy tension or toxic tension? What does the reaction mean about where we are?
Healthy tension is tension that moves the brand and the business forward. Great work must always have tension. If it doesn’t have tension, it’s not great and it’s not causing conversation. Healthy tension, when it moves the brand and business forward, it goes beyond awareness to drive actual acquisition and business results. Sometimes you can have awareness and, instead of acquisition, you end up with alienation.
So, that is where instead of it being healthy, it goes into the toxic space. I think that they checked the box on tension, they raised awareness, but was it healthy? There was a lot of alienation. You don’t need a focus group to know that in this very polarized world that we are living in, when you use the word genes, and by genes I mean G-E-N-E-S, and then you show only one demographic, they’re going to be people with thoughts, right? And there’s going to be a lot of energy around that. You don’t need to do a focus group or spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on research to get to that point.
So there were some people that felt alienated. Did the awareness overall drive acquisition? We don’t know yet. I think a good example of a brand that jumped into the conversation and drove awareness and acquisition is Gap. They had a counter ad with Katseye, and that drove a lot of acquisition, and Gap sales on TikTok are through the roof. So that’s an example of healthy tension.
Of using the tension to help?
Of using the tension in a healthy way to drive not just awareness, but acquisition. I think, gone are the days where all publicity is good publicity. There’s some publicity we just don’t need, you know what I mean?
All right, let’s try. Let’s go to number two. When Cracker Barrel fans responded to the removal of this old-timer from the logo, right? They walked—and we’ve seen other brands backtrack, like HBO walking back Max, right? So, are there situations, do you know, in the situations where it’s like, this is a cultural conversation that I’m losing? I can’t drive this conversation versus, like, I just made a mistake.
First of all, brands have a lot of power, because when we have brands where we’re having commentary from everybody, from the president to your hairdresser, you’ve touched a nerve. And what I will say is, as a brand, Cracker Barrel had been experiencing a decline in sales. That’s why they said, “What can we do to ignite or spark the next wave of growth for the business?”
So we have to give them kudos for saying, “Hey, we can’t just keep going down the path we’re going. We need to change something.” Now, when you are evolving a brand, you have to either adapt, or you die as a brand. You have to evolve. So they concluded, “We need to evolve.” Now, there’s the heart of the brand or the soul of the brand, because what is a brand at the end of the day? A brand is the sum of the promises we make and the experiences we deliver. That is what it is. The soul of the heart of the brand is at the core of that.
For Cracker Barrel, it’s around that Southern hospitality and comfort. That is a non-negotiable. I think with the logo change, I mean, you all can see the second logo. It’s not exactly screaming Southern hospitality.
It’s not really screaming anything. It’s pretty sanitized.
It’s not screaming. It could be Panera Bread, you know what I mean? And so, if you are someone who, immediately you see this, you go to this is changing Southern hospitality and comfort. So all of a sudden, you start to question what is this brand going to deliver? And so it affects the trust with the customer because you’re evolving something that is too core.
So I think Cracker Barrel learned, hey, this is too core. We can’t touch this. Let’s look at other things that we can evolve. So I’m going to give them kudos for actually saying, “Hey, we listened and we’re going to not touch the heart or the soul of the brand. We will evolve something else.” I don’t actually think it’s capitulation. I think it’s smart. I think it’s good stewardship of the brand. We’re not in a perfect world. We’re all going to make mistakes. I give bravery and courage for saying, “Hey, we messed up this. We’re going to go back.”
All right, so this is an image of the U.K. streetwear designer Tega Akinola. It’s part of Autodesk’s “Let There Be Anything” campaign. Partnerships are so important for brands right now. So how do brands associate and get the most authentic partnerships with creators, celebrities? How do we think about making sure you get the right choice so you get the right ROMI, the right return on marketing investment?
Yes. Show me the ROMI. Everything has to start with business impact. First of all, you have to figure out how is this going to advance my brand objective and ultimately drive the results that I’m going for? So there are three key things you look at.
First of all, is this an add? It has to be an add and a build. It should not be a detraction. And honestly, if it’s going to be neutral, don’t even do it. Do something else with your resources. So that add and that build is really important. The second thing is, you need to be pushing not just for reach, but also for resonance, because reach does not equal resonance. And you cannot compromise resonance for reach. Because if you are not getting both resonance and reach, you’re ultimately not reaching that new target audience, and you’re not expanding your demographic to get the needed business results. I think the third thing is, you have to make sure that whatever partnership you’re doing, it fits into the bigger picture and is a force multiplier, not a force divider.
So that’s a third thing you need to look at. I think when you check those three boxes, whether you’re working with a creator or it’s a brand partnership, that’s how you get to ROMI. And if you’re thinking, “What should the math be?” I like to use a 1:3 ratio. So, if I’m spending a dollar, I want to make sure that I’m making at least $3. If I’m not going to make $3, there might be a better investment for those resources.
